Alzar la Voz — con John Radford | La Voz que Conecta Ep. 2

María Álvarez conversa con John Radford — concejal de Idaho Falls, CEO de EICAP, profesor y padre — sobre comunidad, liderazgo, y el precio de alzar la voz.

Es una conversación honesta sobre un Idaho Falls que cambia, sobre servir escuchando más de lo que se dicta, sobre decir la verdad aunque cueste, y sobre la sanación que llega después de lo más difícil. Bilingüe, cruda y real.

María sits down with Idaho Falls councilman and EICAP CEO John Radford for an honest, bilingual conversation about community, leadership, and what it costs to speak up — plus his own story of survival and healing.

Porque cuando una voz se sana, toda una comunidad se fortalece.

Síguenos: conectate-id.com · Facebook & Instagram: @Conectate.id

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I think our council has been pretty clear with uh police chief that we don't want to be involved with ICE. We don't want to be involved with homeland security, mostly because we're not expertise. We we don't know that law. And to be honest, most of us also weren't comfortable with the tactics.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

She said, um someone came to his window and said, Are you so and so? And he said, Yes. And then he said, uh documentos, documents. And the guy said, No, I I don't have any. And he said, Oh, no, no documentos, no documents, then you're illegal. Illegal? And then his wife said, Then I just heard my husband say, Okay, okay, like wait, I'll get out myself. I'll get out myself. And then it disconnected, and I didn't hear anything else.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

And I said, I don't think it's ready. And they said, Well, there's four of us that think it is, and you don't really matter, you're one or two. And uh, so we're gonna move ahead. And I said, Well, then I need to know when we're gonna vote so that I can generate interest so that people will come out and talk to you the way I hear from them. And so I made a post on social media that went really viral and uh got shared like 200 times and and really the the it kind of all blew up. But it was that team of people that kept me alive. And when you face really, really hard things, you need each other. You you need more than you.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Welcome to La Vos que Conecta. I'm Maria Álvarez, and one of the questions I hear most often is what's really happening in Idaho Falls? Today, we're going straight forward to the source. I'm joined by Idaho Falls City Councilman John Radford for a conversation about some of the issues, opportunities, and decisions shaping our community. Today's conversation is primarily in English, but the topics we discuss affect all of us who call East Idaho home. Our mission at La Voz Quonecta is to bridge conversations, cultures, and communities through both English and Spanish. Communicate on Franco Legal PLLC. And now I can come to episode two de La Vos que connect. Today we have an amazing guest, una persona que is Consejo de la Ciudad de Idaho Falls, John Radford. Welcome.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Thank you. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yes, it is. It is. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us a little bit about community. That's what we're gonna be talking about today is community and the systems. So tell us a little bit about you. Aside from being city councilman, you are the CEO of ECAP. You are also a father.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Professor.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Professor, husband, all the things. Friend. Yeah. So you have a lot. You have a lot.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

I think I think it's maybe because I'm addicted to communities. I I I have to have all the communities in my world.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Tell me, tell, tell, tell me and the audience a little bit about that. Addicted to communities.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Well, I think for me, I started early in life really being very social.

SPEAKER_06 3:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

I was raised by two parents that were my dad was very gregarious and outgoing, an entrepreneur, owned auto parts stores, and that mattered for his business to be able to do that. And for me, my mom was very endearing, and she just loved people and she was super curious about people. And so she knew more about the bag boys at our local grocery store and who they were dating than I did as their friends.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

And then you did as their friend.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

She'd be like, did you know that so-and-so was dating someone? No.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

But I do now.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Um so those two people were my, you know, examples and the people that I kind of grew up around. And and I saw that they've found value not in things, but in people and in joining and being part of something that was bigger than themselves. And I think it's led to like our family. I mean, many people know in town that our family is very con connected. My sister's a county commissioner, my brother's the head of the redevelopment organization, and then my sister is an English teacher at Rigby. So she's probably service more than any of us. Um so there's just this service kind of orientation that kind of led to us being social, right? Like the social world gave us that opportunity to be more involved in community, which gave us richness in our life instead of seeking just whatever you might seek, whether it's addictions or money.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Right. We we all have addictions, whatever they might be.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

For me, it's been chocolate and sugar.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

You know, lately for me it's been the gym.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Yeah. That's a good thing. I mean, that one's a little more positive it's a little more positive. And it could go too far, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yes, which is we're we're gonna it yes, it does. You know, I think everything has has to have a little bit of of limits and balance and boundaries. So um tell me a little bit about uh what part of your story is it that most people don't see.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Hmm. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is something that you and I have talked about before, is that I grew up with a lot of ambiguity. So I knew I was a kid that was really good at athletics, I was really good at social skills, but I knew I was really bad in a school environment. Okay. And I didn't succeed really at school, and so I thought, oh, I am not a good person. Like I am not. All my friends were straight A students and would turn in all their assignments, and that was just difficult for me. Like it wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

And I would have not and I would have not imagined that actually. I would have thought maybe you were one of like the students that excelled in school.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Right. And I think it's so fascinating because I spent 27 years managing bookstores and and I'm seen as very kind of in the know and have knowledge now. Yes. But that is different than being good at turning in your papers and and getting a grade.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

I think I think that is very, very different.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

And but that ambiguity led me to really have a lot of internal dialogue very early in my life, like eight, nine, and ten. Like, oh, I'm great over here. People really value me. Really, I I can tell that I'm worthwhile. But over here, I don't seem to have worth, and I'm not I'm not as good as I am in these other parts of my life. Am I good?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Wow, at 10 years old.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah, there was a lot of that thought for me. And so it gave me a lot of opportunities to lean into the parts of my life where I was effective. So I was a great athlete, played, you know, sports for as long as I could and loved it. And being part of a team was probably another piece of community that made me really realize that you can't get things done by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Right. How obviously being part of a team truly shows that to you.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

And how does that play into what you do now?

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Well, I think the biggest thing is that uh I have to influence people more than I have to dictate to people, right? Like if you're gonna be part of a team, it's um there is times where you stand alone, but there's also a lot of time where you listen and try to empathize or you try to find where they're coming from and see if they if there's validity to what they're saying as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I think that's a really good point. Um, and obviously, not everyone can be in a position like that. And the reason that I say that is because before or, you know, when whoever would come to me for different things, like I I literally judged. I automatically judged, you know, with with my biases, with the yeah, with my upbringings and everything. But after going to counseling and doing a lot of energy work and things like that, uh, I was able to see that take a step back and just try to put myself in that person's shoes and try to understand where they were kind of coming from.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

And I think that also helped for me to have so much reading and to my love of books. From an early age, you you get empathy through another person's eyes when you read.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

That is so true.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Like you're in you're you're going into a either a nonfiction or a fiction book, you're inhabiting these spaces of these characters. Whether you're reading a presidential biography or a Brandon Sanderson Missborn, you're still trying to figure out what are these people thinking? What's their motivations? Like, what is it? And to me, that's always been fascinating. And then trying to figure out what my motivations are.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Okay. I think that's um something that we're gonna talk about. One of the biggest things that I want to be able to talk about in La Bosque Conecta is community. And community means so many things. Obviously, with what you do, you know, you you have community in city council, you have a whole community that you serve, Idaho Falls.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

And then I had a religious community, I had a sports community, I had it's so funny. Like in my life, there's times like, oh, like my wife will sometimes say, How do you know them? You know, and it's like, oh they're my sports world. This was my rugby high school world, this is my Eagle Rock, like West Side time when I grew up here. And really a lot of my connections are based on these different sets of communities I've been part of. Um, your college experience, your high school experience. Um and I think it's interesting that how social media has allowed some of that to continue in a way that when I first got out of college and high school, you didn't get to see people, but now on Facebook you can kind of keep track or Instagram or whatever social media. Yeah, the different platforms that you yeah, the positive sides of those things. But then man, we've seen some really angry things on social media like the last pro mayor election. Oh, yes. And so social media has both sides of that, right? In terms of community. I'm not sure it's always a win.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I think it's really good to be able to have that freedom of speech, right? Uh that we do live in the United States, and we have that freedom. I I personally think it's really easy for us to be keyboard warriors. Keyboard warriors. Yeah. To be keyboard warriors. Yeah. That is um, I think that is it's it's so much easier to say something, and maybe for the first time people feel they have a voice. A voice. Yeah, they have a platform somewhere where they can say things, you know, that they would have probably not said, and maybe someone, you know, inspires them to take that action. For sure. I know that one of the biggest um things that has been happening in Idaho Falls lately has been a lot of the things that have to do exactly with city council. Yeah, the city council. Tell us um a little bit about before we enter all of those details because we're gonna get into a lot of stuff and we're gonna get um hopefully some we're gonna ask some questions, and I and and I know that we're gonna be hearing uh things that we possibly wouldn't be hearing um if we don't take the time to meet people like yeah, like like John Radford. And before we go there though, I want to ask you what people does the work that you do impact and in and in what ways?

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Well, there's a few different communities that I think really benefit, right? So my work in city council impacts the entire community of like people that live inside the boundaries. Um I feel like though a lot of times in my city council work we do a lot of work not to do harm as opposed to actually benefit people emotionally or socially. And I the I wish we had more time or more b ability to help people relieve their anxieties and their things that they worry about. But in my day-to-day work at Eastern Island Community Action Partnership at ECAP, then our real clients are people that are in economic distress, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

And so that group is who we're really striving every day to kind of help thrive. And we don't want to do that for them. We want them to we want to give a hand a helping hand, but not a handout, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Well, it's just like uh saying, right? Like um, you have you know, if you teach a man to fish, yeah, they'll be able to provide food for themselves.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

And and I think that's a really good thing. Uh we all need help. We all, you know, go through different things in life. And it's really nice to have some yes, and and that's I think one of the biggest things that a lot of the community that listens to La Vosque Conecta does not know about a lot of resources that already exist. How do you feel that we as a community could do better to make those resources more accessible?

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Well, I think two things. I think we need to search for them. If you're part of that community and you need help, there it does have to be some initiative, right? But I think the other piece of that is once that's true, then we at ECAP or other social services agencies need to make things accessible, whether that's through our website or we reach out. Um, we're gonna have a the third week of September. We're having a social services symposium.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I saw that email. So those are so I'm gonna go back really quick. You said we need to search for them first. Who who were you talking about? Who's we and search for what?

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Yeah, the people that are in economic distress, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

If you need to search for the resources.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah. So at East Night Community Action Partnership, we can help with your heating bill all winter. Like we can provide up to $500 for the nine months that you're and we'll help pay that through Idol Falls Power or Bottom of the Power or Rocking Mountain Power or whoever you might be saying. Um we also uh at places like ECAP, we have rental assistance or we have Head Start or we have mills on Wheels for Seniors.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

And and you know, I that is so impressive because when I started learning a lot more about what yeah, just just what ECAP does, I was like, why don't more people know? Like, why do why do we not know? And I and I understand that you said we, the people that are in need, have to take the initiative to look for those things. Have you been in a place before in your life where you've been in need? And how did you feel?

SPEAKER_03 15:37

I I think I reached out to community, right? Like that's what I think we that's why there's resilience in community and why you shouldn't cut yourself off from people and your family and those things, because when you have difficult times, which we all will have, always.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And I mean they don't just happen once or twice and then they're gone. Like they, you know, back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

I'm squarely in middle class, right? Or middle age, sorry. And uh you get introduced to yourself at this point in life. You had all those hopes and dreams when you were 20. And then when you're 30, you were working on those dreams. And if you know, my point of life, you're like, oh, now how many years do I have left to achieve things that I care about? And probably 10 years ago or more, it was when I realized, no, I want to give, I want to serve because I'm getting more from that than striving for just accomplishment or ambition or just straight up trying to get dollars. Now you need money.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

We we we have to make a living, right? We have to survive. But I think you are very spot on with that because I feel I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_06 16:39

I feel like it's been a maturity end of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, what I what I put my time and energy and effort into has to be something that I believe in that is going to make a big impact for honestly, obviously for for me, it's the Hispanic community. One, because I'm Hispanic, right? And so I I I have navigated these systems that that honestly aren't built for for the Hispanic community. They're very difficult to navigate as it is. So the reason I ask the the question is it's easy to say good we you know go look for the resources. I get calls every single day, messages, messenger from things to where do I get a DNA test to crazier things that are I yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

I I mean I think it is incumbent upon the city, upon places like ECAP, the library, the just different places where resources are available that we're trying to be as accessible to different demographics. And it's not just Latin communities in Addle Falls. It's uh interestingly, we have an Eastern European group. Like at Head Start, we have a number of languages that we're helping kids transition into English because there's not just la it's not just Spanish. There's I think we're doing Czech, I think we have Russian. Really?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

So That is so awesome. I obviously, you know, being here in Idaho Falls for 25 years plus, I've obviously seen a a a major change. And when we go out to um community events, uh when I go to like a Hispanic um event, and you know that there's gonna be Spanish music, Mexican food, all of that. We see people that you've never seen, and you hear the different um dialects or the different um that is true, different countries of South Latin America or even Spain. Yeah, there's the different accents, and I'm like, oh my goodness, like Idaho Falls is no longer uh just yeah, it's there there are so many languages that are being spoken here, and it's it's been beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

I agree, and that's the mission of the United States, right? Was a melting pot. It's always been that. And I think it's interesting because of the Idaho National Lab as well, that we're attracting some of the most intelligent people that are immigrants. Like you I mean, PhDs, um, researchers from all over the globe. It's not it's and we have this growing um Indian population in India. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

And a lot of them are employees at INL.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Well, and that's how they got here, and then they like it. I mean, I think the benefit is is that we have this place that's livable. And I think that's the thing I worry most from a city council standpoint is how do we not lose the livability of a community that is going through growth? Because inevitably you can't the one limit we have in a country that's free is you don't get to say no to people coming. Like you you can't say we're oh, there's enough people in Idle Falls, no one else is you know in close to we don't have a fire code number violation to these many residents or then go find your own town. Yeah. So because of that, we how do we keep our character, keep our fill without um without being unwelcoming? And my one of my big concerns is I kind of really hate this kind of hatred towards Californians or you know, I do too.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

I really I really don't like I actually any, right? Like it's I mean, obviously, with a lot of the stuff that's happening, it I feel it. Yeah, we feel it. And it and because I have felt it since I was in grade school, right? I was like, no, welcome, like welcome. I'm like, why are we like this?

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Well, and I think that back to my um upbringing. I was this redheaded kid. I didn't look like everyone else. And I was a head and shoulders taller. I was like six foot when I was twelve years old.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

You you definitely stood out from the crowd.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

And so I always wanted to be someone that went and helped someone feel welcome because I knew what it was like to not. Well, uh I didn't really get unwelcomed because I was in spaces where I was appreciated generally because of the things I talk about, like sports and social life. But that is so awesome. But I didn't really clearly know what that is. And I think that's interesting in like the worlds that I'm in in politics now. Like if you invite me to a Latin event, I'm willing to go because I'm I'm used to being someone that stands out or you know, I can Well, speaking of which, um, you have gone to to

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Quite a bit of them. And tell me a little bit about those experiences for you. How have they been over the years?

SPEAKER_03 22:09

I think it's really helpful for me to have a different, it's a little a bit akin to that reading that we talked about where I get to see the world through a different set of lenses. Yes. And um I see a couple of things that I think I love about the Latin community. One is family and just that really loyalty to family and to doing things and planning things around family. Yes. But those events are other things too. The events of groups of family takes planning, and so that's impressive. Um commitment to family. I I had an employee once that was uh said, you know, I have this Sunday get together and my family expects me to be there. And if I don't, I I'll just quit. I'll go, I'll go to my family event before I would work on this Sunday at my retail work that I was doing. And we made it work for her, but like that showed me so much commitment. Like there's other jobs, but there's not another family that I have.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

That is that is, I think, so true. Yes. Okay. So commitment to family. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

I love the passion. Like, there's so much fun to just hear people, there's a lot of humor, a lot of love, there's a lot of dancing, there's a lot of singing.

SPEAKER_05 23:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

I I think we need that. Like one of the things I worry about with Idle Falls is that we're this boring whitebred religious community, which doesn't help us attract people from the outside world. I think about Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is kind of the R capital of the Western United States. And they have this hook, right, of interest and colors and all these cool things. And they're smaller than Idle Falls.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Santa Fe, New Mexico is like 90,000 people. And with us and um and the surroundings of Ammon, we're like 140, 150,000 people. So, but what do people associate Idol Falls with? And I think it should be as much about Latin and unique things like Day of the Dead or you know Cinco de May.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

I guess, yeah, I guess what do you associate Idaho Falls with? Where and let us know where you are listening to us uh from. One of the things that I thought was actually so awesome was going um to watch the Mexico World Cup games. We had a lot of fun. And were you yeah, you were there at one of them.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

I was with both, you weren't at one with me, but I saw both the Mexico games at Buffalo Wild Wings when it was everyone was together, and it was such a great thing to see families sitting together.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Okay, so you did go to the final, right? It's true. How was it?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

It was intense.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

You didn't, I like I wasn't there and I really wanted to be there.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

But like just bogging their and it was disappointing at the end, but there was a lot of hope and a lot of cheering before that. Um I think we all benefit from that, you know, and whether it's because of our heritage or it's because of our community. I'll be honest, like you just asked, what is it that people think of Idle Falls that makes it stand out? Uh something that I worry about is that we don't always talk about what our character is. And I clearly think that Idle Falls has a character, and I think it's innovation. We're one of the first public utilities in the United States, in the western United States, and so our our Idol Falls power just turned 126 years old.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Like that's innovation, because so many cities started getting power in the 20s and 30s, but we were 20 years ahead of that. And then suddenly there was this uh contract for the Idaho National Lab, and the city fathers went to work and they they pretended to build a road after the city. I was gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Tell the story.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Like, I don't know if you've heard it, but they knew that it was the nuclear mission and the atomic age, it was important, right? Like it was gonna solve so many problems. Yes, and so Pocatello was being considered Blackfoot, a town in Montana. There was all kinds of places they were thinking about putting this, but Idol Falls knew how much it would just give us a base forever in perpetuity. And so they would set up cocktail parties with the prettiest wives in town, and they would set up all these things to show that they were building a road, they they rented caterpillars to like it was it was impressive.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

They put on a show, they put on a show, and they won't be able to do that. They say fake it till you make it. I guess that one definitely shows that.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

And here we are, right? You know, there's probably 15,000 jobs or something associated with the lab that Power Falls now. And so that story, and then we fast forward a few years, and now we're one of the first towns to make fiber to every home. And like those are the things.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Really? I didn't know that you guys were one of the first cities to do that.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Ammon started with uh uh what they called business improvement districts. Yes, and they would have sections of neighborhoods, but we went to every address, and it was a key argument because you most fiber rollouts you go to the wealthy neighborhoods and make sure that you can get people to pay. True. But we said, look, we already have a power company. We have a meter to everyone's house, and we need fiber to those meters to be able to do the work we know of the future of these what power is going to be capable of. And if we're taking fiber to every house, why wouldn't we offer them to be able to have fiber internet?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Right. Already. Yeah. So And it is actually way more affordable than you know, some of the options that are here.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Uh properties uh in Idle Falls, they are estimated five to twelve percent more valuable because there's fiber to every home.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

I can believe that, being someone that uses a lot of technology and works from home. Works from home. And I have a son that uses a lot of technology. Like it is very, very useful now.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

It's just like roads and sewers of the 19th century. Like we had to build this stuff so that we could have the resources. So that all is because innovation, right? We've just been innovators and we're hustlers, and I think that grows out of being in a desert and having to make make a life. Figure it out. You have to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Who would have thought like that? This is a desert. We but it is so beautiful. If you have not been to Idaho Falls, we invite you to come. It is so beautiful, so scenic. Come during the summer.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Yeah, and that's and a Saturday farmers market.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Oh yes. Oh, yesterday, I think, was just so beautiful. Like, you know, it was it was a Saturday. Uh, we're recording this on a Sunday, and it was crazy to see how many people were out and how late, and the variety of people. And then you had the trolley horses, you know, people were fascinated by that. There are people from out of the country that are here that they're like, We had no idea to expect this. Like, this is just beautiful. So you get to be in charge of making a lot of decisions for for the city, um, for this city and for its residents.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

I interesting you say that though, because I don't think of it that way. I think Okay, tell me a little bit more. I think I think of that as I get to be the one that hears from people to make those decisions with people. So because if I if I was just the person, you know, then that would be a boring town. But but if I get to listen- I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

If you got to make all the decisions, I don't know how boring it would be. But I do think that we we have to represent people, right? And listen, and I think there's lots of examples of that over my 10 or plus years of being on council. But we're better when we hear from people and we're better when we listen to the concerns people bring to us.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

And I I think that that is the you know, we can't take things to people that we think they want. I agree with you a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

We have to listen to the community that we're serving and find out directly from them um what their needs are, what they're struggling with, what are their rules.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Or what are you celebrating, right? Like it doesn't have to be all I I get that, you know, we always look to make something better, but also maybe somebody did something really spectacular and they can share it, and it could be something that could you could learn from. We could all learn from, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Yeah. And I think the more that we create a space where people can be comfortable, then they will be creative. And I think it's so fun that the person who just won the Oscar for Demon uh uh Yeah. I don't remember the animated cartoon.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yes, I watched it.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

I watched it, and I was like, we have an Oscar winner.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Well, you have an Oscar winner from Idle Falls. Like that's impressive, right? And he went to Idle Falls High School. Um, like the creativity is something he spurred while he lived here too. Like his storytelling and his art, all those things came out of his childhood here. So that's our responsibility, I think, as Cedar Leader City Leadership. To do what is to find ways to create spaces where people can thrive and and explore and be more than they are now.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

I think I think um that is something really, really good. With that, what question or sorry, what systems um do you feel help or harm our community?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Yeah. So I mean, fundamentally, the first thing, the reason people exist in cities and the reason we have a city is safety. And I so fundamentally we have to make sure that the resources are there for our firemen, our EMT, our police. Right so they have the tools and the resources to keep us safe. Now, with immigration and ICE and the things that we've been experiencing in our last few years here, I mean, I really, really am concerned that people have to live in fear around those things because living in fear around that is damaging not only to the people that are immigrants, but also to the community.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

How do you feel it's damaging to the community? I I mean I can definitely know how you know it could be for immigrants, but how is it to the community?

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Well, there's some very pragmatic things that first we can talk about, but um, one is do you have enough workers to, you know, do your dairy work or your farm work or just any, you know, even nurses and skilled laborers, you know, the a lot of them that we have working here are not U.S. citizens, and we need immigrants to fill those roles because that's who's willing to do the good work of a nursing or you know, the different things that need to be done. So so would first of all, just you know, convenience for everyone else is that hey, someone shows up to work and they're yeah, we have to keep the the city running.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah, we have to keep everything operating.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah. That is true. Um but I think the other thing is that when people are in fear, then we have people that um maybe don't go to business events or events, and then we don't as a city have the revenue or the businesses don't have revenue to succeed. So there's that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

And you know, that is so true. Um last week was these last four weeks, five weeks have been really heavy um for the Hispanic community because there is uh, you know, there are uh federal ICE operations happening almost every day. Um we as community members did try to get information because people look to certain um people in in the Hispanic community to to help get information they want. It's it's not that easy. Um it hasn't been easy.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yeah. And I also think it hasn't I think they actively try to not have people know, which is even harder, right? Like I think that's a problem with how they function. Well, that's and that and and how do you as a city leader, because uh you know, we uh we're coming um uh to the city leaders for help and guidance to I think the thing that we can do most because we aren't in charge of federal troops or federal officers, uh that what we can do is to continue to let the public know what's being what's being done, what we're cooperating with, what we're not cooperating with. I think our council has been pretty clear with uh our police chief that we don't want to be involved with ICE. We don't want to be involved with homeland security, mostly because we're not expertise we we don't know that law. No, it is so our police officers are trying to do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

It is so complicated. I mean, it is such it's changes daily.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Yeah almost. It changes a lot. And to be honest, most of us also weren't comfortable with the tactics that were so true of the optics of how they were trying to intimidate and just make things fearful for the purpose of being fearful so that people would maybe make decisions that um to go home or to go to a different country or to just not be here.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Can I share something with you? I get I get stories and I and I I I I want maybe your feedback on how how could I share these stories with maintaining obviously I'm not going to share names um because I want to protect the you know, people uh to trust and and keep sharing things with me. But I got a phone call on I got a phone call um and I was at an event and the person that called said that uh her husband got pulled over and he left her his phone on speaker and she said, uh someone gave me your phone number, said that you could possibly help me. I don't know what to do. I don't I don't know where do we where yeah, like he called me and they are holding him in Idle Falls. Where? Like, do you know where they would hold him in Idol Falls?

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Well, Idol Falls doesn't have a jail. We don't run a jail or a prison.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Bonneville County does.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

And so it could have been Bonneville County then.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

And then then ICE and Homeland Security have been across the country buying facilities to have places where they can detain people.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Well, do you not know is it if they're in if they bought a facility in Idol Falls?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Um I think we would know if it was in Idol Falls. Right. And we haven't seen that.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Have you known if there's somewhere surrounding?

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Um I haven't heard that. I mean, I've heard rumors of those things, but I've never seen substantial. Um I think a lot of those facilities are very expensive to build in in the millions of dollars. I don't think Homeland Security and ICE want to do that everywhere. They'd rather transport people to the ones they've built in Salt Lake or Boise or something.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah, yeah. But they're getting transported to Rigby, to Jefferson County. Um but what I was going to share with you real quick was that when she said he called and he's being held night off, and then they're gonna take him to Jefferson County, and then she said, I don't know how to find him. From there, like how do I get to visit him? How do I find him? I don't know where, you know, his vehicle's at. How do I get a hold of the vehicle? And I said, I have no idea. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

I mean, I don't the w what I would have told that person is to call an immigration attorney in Idol Falls right away because they're dealing with it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

And I gave and I did give a list of a lot of immigration attorneys because we in Idol Falls, we don't have that many immigration attorneys. Um we have that I know of, too. I heard of another one, but one is the prosecutor, right? And so it it's the line is insane. But thankfully, we do um have a huge list now of verified immigration attorneys that actually, you know, have the bar the license, the license, number one, because we won't won't even go well, we might go there, but there's a federal case against this immigration attorney, and she came here, Twido Falls, twice. One was in September 2025, and the other one I think was in April of this year. One family shared that they paid this attorney seventy thousand dollars. And nothing happened. Nothing.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

So check check credentials, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

It's it's it's insane. So that's another thing that happens a lot, right? Is um it there's just so many things to try to get information out. It's like people don't know how to verify. If someone goes and tells them I work for the city, they can, and they probably will believe them. And so it's so hard nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Like I guess Yeah, I agree. I I think you have to do the due diligence. It's unfortunate in the world we live in that that's how it is. I will say that's back to community. Um, there was a time in this country where you you knew what everyone did in town and and you could trust that the immigration attorney was the immigration attorney because that's what he did every day, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Um, but we live in a world where we look people up on Google and then we go send them money over Venmo or that.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

And just because they have a website or they, you know, they have the I mean, Google is so is so much better, and you have to verify a lot of stuff now. Um but it's still people will, you know They'll jump through those hoops to deceive you, right? Which is so unfortunate. I think that's one of the most difficult things that um the community is navigating. Yeah. People call me and let me know that they're um scared to go out. I I had an event um where we actually did have an immigration attorney present and people and and people called and said, I'm scared to go.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Yeah, I do think that's a double-edged sword, isn't it? When you try to get people to gather for information around immigration, then is someone gonna show up that's trying to look for people that are not fully immigrated? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Or or if they are, like, you know, like we were we weren't we had an immigration attorney, but we were doing power of attorney. Uh yeah, power of attorney, parental power of attorney things.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Which is important.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

But I would say any emergency.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

I would say that maybe we work hard to find places where ICE and Homeland Security said that they wouldn't go to churches, courts, so that um you can have those places and not feel like you're gonna get raided, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

They won't go to the courts?

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Yeah, and the reason they've made that determination now is that they realize that if they don't if they plan on going to the courts, then people who they want to charge with immigration charges won't show up to their court dates. Like, well, it's been happening.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

It's been happening here in Idaho Falls. Um people have been taken directly from the court when they showed up to they do take people from the court if they are guilty of a crime and they should be deported.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Like that is gonna happen. But what they're trying to do is help people uh keep a safe space to show up to their initial court dates when there's not there's not a determination of innocence yet, you know, or or guilty, so that people will do go through the due process. It's also important as needed, right? It's also important so that like someone who's been sexually assaulted or there's something that needs to be reported. We don't want people to be in this process of thinking that they're have to stay hidden and then they have to put up with these horrible situations.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

You know, unfortunately it does happen. I get to hear that, and I think it that you know, it's just not in with the Hispanic community, but because immigration is such a hot issue right now, that is a big threat that people say, Well, if you don't do this, I will call immigration. I wouldn't I mean I get threatened and I'm like, I'm a US citizen, but why would you think I'm illegal?

SPEAKER_06 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I wonder. It it it's been difficult. It's been pretty difficult to just hear and see we need the the assumptions people make, like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

But you've lived here the previous decades when that you didn't have to fear this in the never. But uh leadership matters, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:42

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

And I think that we have people that are in leadership position right now that want to have people be fearful. And so the division is what they're searching for to gain power. Well, it's not it's not that's not right.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

It is so sad. It is so sad to see A lot of that stuff, and there is a lot of division, and like you said, fear. There's a lot of fear for so many people, right? There's so much uh misinformation. I think one of the things that I loved about the World Cup, John, it has been fun, was to s when Mexico was, you know, still um in playing, was to see how many different people from other countries went and loved loved, love, love Mexico. I mean, the did you see the the streets built in Mexico City and then Guadalajara and in Monterrey?

SPEAKER_03 44:42

I was in Boston and Mexico was playing one of the games and there was watch parties in the streets in Cambridge, like where Harvard is. Like it's just so fun to see everyone kind of get together. But I I think we've seen Norway just and Greece and like just uh w where the Scots came and drank all the beer in Boston. Like it's just so fun, right? And I think that's remo I think we need some commentator, we need someone to really step up and say, This is why immigration is should be supported, not hurt. Because when we have people come to our shores, when we have people come to our nation and our states and our cities, it allows us to see our states and our cities and our nation in a better light.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

In the same way that when people come visit your home, you tr you clean up.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Right. It's true, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:33

That is so true because you want to show that.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Yeah, and I think that we need more of that. And this country's been through this before. We we've had eras eras of immigration where we like I think Ireland, like some like 30% of the whole population of Ireland came to America through this island.

SPEAKER_06 45:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Um, we've had lots of European immigration. And one thing that for people from Mexico and the Latin countries can take some solace in is they were hated. They were very hated in New York politics. The Irish were very discriminated against. Boston, the Irish were discriminated against. But by the third and fourth generations, they were starting to have acceptance and winning mayorships and and winning council seats and doing all these things, and they were the political workhorses because they were the ones here, we're doing the work. And so I think there's a bright future for immigration for immigrants that are here that keeps being vocal, that keep being visible. Um, and then the power that they'll have opportunities to be part of will make it so that the immigration question will be something of the past. Oh, I sure hope so. Because we had the swing where we had all these immigrants, and then in the mid part of the 20s, it went the other way. And people they closed down the borders, they wouldn't let people in.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

And then we fought a world war, and we needed everyone to win. And then they opened up the water.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

That's when they did the Braseros program too. Yeah, which was awful.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Yeah. I mean But we needed people, right? And then suddenly America became the world's kind of leader after World War II. Yes. And then we became this beacon for immigrants again, and we ha saw immigration laws loosened. Um I mean, there was times in in the country where non-US citizens were allowed to vote in cities.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Really?

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Because where? In New York City, because they This is news to me, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Like for me, I've never ever.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

They wanted them to be able to vote because they wanted them to live in in in the city and have a say in their city so that they would work towards citizenship and would become true citizens. Because they knew they had to live there and get along with everyone. And so if you're gonna believe in democracy and have people having a voice, do it.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

And and it must have been pretty easy then to get citizenship back then or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Well, there there was a route, but it's just that they it wasn't like now where there was only four hundred, five hundred spots. That's the dilemma, is that we've limited the number and then we've made it so difficult and so unpredictable with the changes in immigration programs that predictability matters if you're trying to get to this country. I have a number of people in my life that waited four years in like camps in Turkey to get through all the paperwork to be here legally because they were in conflict in another nation or in the Middle East, they helped with the war effort against the Iraqi government or something. And they like they don't let them just come to Idaho or to America.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

They go to this middle ground in Turkey and they get their biometrics and they make sure their birth certificates are legitimate and that they are who they are say they are.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

And this is like through the asylum? Kind of like an asylum.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

There's political asylum and then there's the wartime where people like from Afghanistan also have come here, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Um, so there's lots of reasons why we've taken people in as a country. And one of the great regrets of the 20th century was not taking in the Jewish people from Germany. We didn't have it was right after the war, and there was a lot of hatred of from World War One. And so there was a really intense laws not allowing people in, and there was not very many spots for the Jewish people to get to America. Had we been um open borders at the time through Europe, we could have saved another five, ten million Jews that would have come to America. Right. And so it's one of those things that I think people that were in power at that time when you read their biographies, they feel really bad that they wasn't there wasn't more done to get the Jewish people out. Because there was a time in Germany where you could get out before they were rounded up.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Oh my gosh. Oh that is so awful to read. Like and and and then watch movies and then just I know, and I pray and hope that we don't get there with what's going on with immigration here in the United States. You know, but a lot of people start comparing. That's where it started. That's where how first things started.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

And and it it's we need to we need to go pro protest, we need to go fight this so that they make it hard for them. Because we've noticed that this administration, particularly, when it gets hard, they don't want to do it. I mean, the Milwaukee Ice situation, they turned around, they fired the person finally. Like, I do think that they do respond to public pressure eventually.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I I think that they do too. I think that's one of the biggest things. And just recently, you know, uh just recently, like on TikTok, um, it was all you all I would see, obviously it the algorithm follows, but it was just like all of these videos from people all over the world in Mexico wearing the Mexico jerseys and just saying, like, I love Mexico, you know, we got warnings, we got threats that do not come, that the people are bad, and they're like, Oh my gosh. They were just like, no, it's actually really beautiful, it's very welcoming. They're nothing like what we've been told. One of the things I think I loved was to be able to, as uh, you know, person that's Mexican American, I felt there was some healing because one, it broke stereotypes that people have about Mexicans, especially here in the United States now. Um and then it it just it was beautiful to hear something positive and wonderful instead of like being scared, you know, to just be out in public or being called Mexican or I'm not sure whatever that might be. But with just last the last few days, unfortunately, there has been another shooting by ice in Texas that killed a man that was not even the target, the witches, and that's the those are the things that we've been told by people that got pulled over is they are looking for so and so. No, it's they looked like them. I don't know. Um they're like, or we thought the plates were the these people, and then they're like, but give me your documentation, right? Um the lady that was uh I'll go back to the lady that uh heard her husband on the phone. She said, um, all I heard was uh it was kind of like in Spanglish, someone came to his window and said, Are you so-and-so? And he said, Yes. And then he said, uh documentos, documents. And the guy said, No, I I don't have any. And he said, Oh, no, no documentos, no documents, then you're illegal, illegal. And then he said, or his wife said, then I just heard my husband say, Okay, okay, like wait, I'll get out myself. I'll get out myself. So she said, I don't know what happened. And then I heard my husband say, It's my wife on the phone, and then it disconnected, and I didn't hear anything else. And so, you know, that made me wonder we're not getting testimony from the people that are actually getting picked up. Like, is that something that the city would like to get into to find out if the things that, you know, we get um comments about are true? Like, what would I I guess as a city leader, if you want the if if residents, you know, come and ask you that, like what would you tell them? What would you recommend?

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Well, I think we love it when people come to our council meetings and give public comment. So if they could share their stories there, then um that always gets a lot of attention. And so that's that's something that can happen so that we can hear the stories.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

That is that is really nice, like to think that people could do that. Unfortunately, I feel that targets them. It it so we did have, you know, um a reporter ask if anybody was willing to talk about these. Nobody was. Yeah, nobody was. They said we would anonymously. And they said, because we are scared that we're gonna be targeted, our family's gonna be targeted, and they're not just scared for like immigration, they're scared of law enforcement, period. And or if they run a business. Yeah, and so it's it's been so hard. Yeah, like I feel that a lot of these things aren't being really heard, and where do they get to be heard and and be safe and be protected?

SPEAKER_03 55:27

Yeah. I don't know that in the environment we have right now that there's any guarantee of that, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

That is really sad.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

But that's also what happened in Germany. And I so I think that there's this double-edged sword of like if we don't talk about it, then it can happen in in quiet and then no one it doesn't get fixed. And then if it if you do talk about it, but you're one of them that's the damage from talking, that doesn't seem worth it either. And so that's a difficult moral question for each person that goes through these things. I and I don't have an easy answer for people.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

But I also know that the outcomes are gonna matter, right? We do have to hear the stories. Um, and we have to validate that they're real. Um, we did know that we just saw someone die in a facility of a um disease, too, right? Like so people aren't getting the treatments they need. Yes. And uh the there has been Congress members attending the detention centers and trying to hold people accountable. Um, but I do I just think fear is this environment that is gonna be dangerous in so many ways. People make really bad decisions when there's fear involved.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Oh my goodness. I mean, how can you not, right? Like you you you use just start going down the rabbit hole. Like it's so hard to get yourself out of there.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

Yeah, and I think not only do the people in in our communities make bad decisions, but I think also because of fear and heightened things, then the government officials and the officers make poor decisions as well, right? Like everyone's making worse decisions than if everyone could talk through things. I think one thing that needs to be talked about, just from my standpoint, because I'm academic about this a little bit, is that to me, immigration problems are not a cr crime, like a criminal crime. They're more like It's a civic. It yeah, it's more of a civil matter. Like, hey, someone walked into your house, that's trespassing, which is maybe a crime. Like, you know, I give you that. But it's more like we we need to correct this, so let's figure out how to correct it that you you're not in the right place at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

I I th I think I'm gonna ask some stuff and or share some things, and I would love to hear your feedback on this. When this um gentleman, you know, recently got um detained, murdered in in Texas. When people are talking, they're like so he didn't have any criminal background and he had no deportation orders. It's like why are we talking like that? Why aren't we talking about this man got murdered because he didn't have the right paper, the right piece of paper. And and I feel we constantly have to be defending ourselves because online people are saying so many things.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

I mean they've been emboldened.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Extreme, extremely. And I'm like, why don't we try to look at this from like a human right? Like try to get in the the person's shoes. Um illegal is illegal. It's like, first of all, do you know how many paths are available? Like almost none.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Almost none.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

And if your family's you get some tough choices, right? Like, yeah. And so that's certainly one of the most disappointing things of the last five years was that there was a um bill to kind of get immigration kind of figured out. And uh, but it was an election year and everyone said it would be better if they didn't sign the bill, you know, if they didn't get the bill done because they could they could do their election rhetoric around this, and which just stoked the fire instead of solving the problem. It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

I I I do feel that it doesn't matter what party you're from, um there has been enough time and different leadership in the United States to make this happen. And they, you know, they haven't. And I feel this is my personal opinion, that they haven't because it benefits the United States dramatically with the amount of dollars that these people are paying into Social Security, Medicare, you know, federal taxes, state taxes, and that they don't qualify and they cannot get like welfare assistance. You can't even get welfare assistance after you have you have to have had five years of becoming a US resident. And to become a US resident is a process, it's not easy. Oh, I mean, people have taken 20 years, 25 years. It's it's the the the length and the cost and the pathways are so limited. It's it's not easy. It's it's not realistic. Another thing that I just basically want to ask um if there's a Hispanic family in their kitchen right now, John, that doesn't feel heard or seen by leadership, city leadership in Idaho Falls. What what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

Well, I think if I was really trying to help them be effective, then I would help them try to get one-on-one with someone in the city, someone that's an elected official in the city. I mean, I think that's when you have the best conversations than than a hearing or a council meeting. Um, and then see if you feel like they are being responsive, you know, if they're willing to listen, are they willing to help? Are they being honest with you about what they can and can't do? You know, cities' roles in immigration are kind of limited in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

But uh we do want everyone to feel safe and protected, and so we want to make sure that can happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

I actually appreciate that very much because that's one of the things that I have liked of the city council in Idaho Falls is how approachable you guys are. Um can be. If yeah, people right. There's some more than others. It depends. How how is the best way that someone could get a hold of the different people?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

So on the internet at the City of Idol Falls official webpage, there's a city council page that has my phone number, like personal phone number as my email.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

Oh wow, your personal phone number. That that is commitment.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

Yeah, we get calls every week, you know, sometimes multiple calls. But I'll be honest with you, the people we hear from aren't usually the Latin um people that are dealing with this issue. No. What we hear from is developers or businesses that are fighting over some issue, which is fine. I mean, any issue you have the city, I I'm happy to listen to. But but I think this issue particularly is where I worry that we're not doing enough to help people feel comfortable or predictable about outcomes. Because well, I don't think people necessarily have to feel comfortable if they're here and they don't have their documents yet. Like that's gonna be hard. You're gonna have to wonder what's gonna happen. But it should be as predictable as possible so that they can make decisions.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

I think so too. I think so too. That's one of the biggest things. It's like, how could we have how could we have, you know, a playbook of A, B, C, D, this is what we're gonna do. This these are the steps that are recommended for you to do. These are um vetted attorneys, these are vetted things that, you know, are here to help you and support you. Um, so we'll we'll see uh kind of what continues to develop from this. I know that um Captain Marley and Chief Johnson will be getting together and trying to get some of the answers that the community has. Like they're asking, you know, how long are these operations going to be happening in Nidal Falls? Where are they at?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Like Why are they?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Why are they? Because I know they're saying that they're targeted, but it just seems like there's too much collateral damage and there's too many mistaken people that they're going after, and it and ends up being other people, but somehow they know they're not, you know, they don't have legal documentation, which is weird to me. I'm like, where are they getting all this information? It's immigration. So I mean, they have access to so, so much. And at what point is that legal? There's just so many questions in my head.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

Well, and I'll be honest, we were just having this conversation recently. We live in a time where your privacy has been given away, right? How many times by ourselves when we said yes on some software that we bought? But we also have a lot of technology that's being used in public spheres that are if you're gonna be in a public space, you don't really have a right to privacy. If you're gonna go to the farmer's market, your face could show up.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:13

Um so we live in a digital age where w crimes, crime convictions in the 70s and 80s and 90s were not in the 90s percent. They were in the 60s and 70 percent. And now, because of the lack of privacy, because you have a phone with you when you're committing a crime, or you have a license plate reader that the police are using, or you have something or people's ring cameras on when across the street when you're doing something you shouldn't be. Uh if I was a criminal right now, I wouldn't do it. Because if your crime is big enough that it's in the public interest or it's gonna kind of gain the in public interest, can you think of A crime recently that they didn't figure it out? Like it is ninety, ninety-five percent because of the tools that are available. So that's a difference for with immigration now too, is that what you were saying about what they know. I mean, in a digital age, people have given so much information through all sorts of ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I literally don't think there's hardly anything private.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

Yeah. I was I was teasing with someone the other day. I was like, we might be able to see like the modern gangsters if they started driving analog cars where they're like 80s cars that wouldn't have a chip in them. Because right now, if there's a crime, our prosecutors go to a dealership and they download where those cars have been from their GIS data.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

So um you yeah, you're it's almost impossible. Yeah. So I I thought it would be funny they would have a c they'd only have a phone that was hooked to the wall. They wouldn't they wouldn't have a smartphone. All the gangsters, like we remember the gangsters of the 20s and the port prohibition era. They had certain things about them. I kind of wonder if someone's gonna have a criminal enterprise if they'd have to just change almost everything because they're not gonna be successful otherwise.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

And we don't want criminal enterprises to be successful, but I do think it's it's fascinating that that we have to find ways to have legal ways to do what we everyone wants to have happen, and that's immigration. We need workers, we need new blood in our communities, we need we need you know, the the salt of the earth, so the the seasoning and all the things to make more life more interesting. So why are we doing that?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

It is so beautiful. I literally I uh the freedom celebration. Yeah, oh my goodness, I I had not gone. I probably went once and it was just to the fireworks and then I was gone. But you know, I used to work for the company and I just was tired by the time I I worked all day and I'm like, I don't want to stay. I don't want to go to them. Yeah. But this time, um, I wanted to go. And when I went to Riverfest, you were amazed. I mean, the amount of people, it was so hot, but it was so beautiful to see so many people out. And the when I was walking, like we were walking off, there's a lot of walking, the different languages that people were speaking, and oh, it was just and I'm like, can someone pinch me? Like, is this Idaho Falls?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:38

Think about that. So the World Cup games have had 60,000, 70,000 people. I don't know how big the stadium is in Mexico City. It might be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Uh like uh I think like, yeah, close to 90,000.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:48

So we had two of those stadiums in Iowa Falls to watch the fireworks. We had 200,000 people watch the fireworks.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

I was okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:55

Because I was wondering how many people went because I had never ever seen such our traffic counts jump by 200,000 people, and it's you can tell in the city that weekend you can't get to places where there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

No, we walked. We walk yeah, we walked a lot. I think we walked like, I don't know, five, six miles that day. Yeah. And it was really nice. I loved it.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

And and it makes it beautiful. So continue coming to Idaho Falls.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Stop by downtown. Um see all the cool things.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

We have a nightlife on downtown on the falls.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Oh, okay. That's another thing. I did not like downtown. And now it's just And now I'm like, I'm now I'm like, my office is downtown, and my favorite restaurants are downtown, my favorite places to go. It is so beautiful. That the way that the I had to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:55

We had an outdoor dance yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:57

Yes. Uh it was, I was like, this feels like again, someone pinch me. Is this real?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

Yeah, I was talking to someone yesterday that said that their friend had moved from Miami and they were from Columbia, and they were like, moved here in February, and they're like, there's nothing to do. Like, because in their country and in Miami, that like almost every night there was a place to go dancing or to get out and do something. But in this this summer, they've been saying how someone else came and moved with them, and they were like, the city has so much to do. So it doesn't matter if it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

It's perspective. I think it's perspective, right? I think it might be perspective too, because there is so much to do. Yeah. I feel that there's so much to do. And I just want to say thank you to everyone who has made it possible for downtown to be an area where we can, you know, all commute safely.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:51

The best that's I'll also say that I see a large percentage of the downtown nightlife is Latin.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Yes, because we love to dance. I mean, you saw we love we love to dance. We're loud. We're loud, we hear that, we're loud. Um passionate. You love to dance. Um, you guys banter. Like we just we just are. It's passion. Like it's not it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

It's the space, it's the fun, it's the things that we know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Yeah, and it's not like um it's it's all the time. It's all the time. And so seeing that in in Idaho Falls is really beautiful. It's it makes you feel part of it, makes you feel uh like, oh my gosh, other people are enjoying our culture too, our music, our heritage, and that is really, really nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

And to bring that back to community, you know, it we have to welcome that. And I think there's so many people in this town that want to, like me. Um, but sometimes the voices of the people who don't want it outweigh the voices that do want it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

How how do we change that?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:08

Or at least we need more people to try. We need more people to talk about the fact that they want more immigration, that they want more influences, they want more people to come that are different than us.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

And where do and where do they talk about this?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Online, in life in Idle Falls, on Facebook, everywhere, everywhere. You do it and you and you're consistent and you change minds when you lead, when you say things that are maybe not popular.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

But speaking of which, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask an uncomfortable question.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

You certainly can.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Um You You said you did some things that you know you you probably are that are that are unpopular. You just did something pretty big as um council member. City council member, and I say it from a city resident. Tell us what tell us what you did.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:12

So I had been working with the council for months, um, trying to help them see that changing our alcohol ordinance wouldn't really benefit anyone, and that the changes they were trying to make seemed to be things that uh were trying to fix problems that maybe didn't exist. But then they kept pushing this forward and there were still some items in the in the ordinance that I was really worried about. Two of them were um commercialization. So you're in a office here that is a commercial space.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

So you do business here, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:50

And so if you wanted to have ten people over that weren't your employees, right. And break open a bottle of wine to celebrate something in the city of Idle Falls under this new ordinance, that would not be a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

Are you serious? Oh, I did not know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:07

Hairdressers, your sister, right? Um, my experience has been there's hair places in Idle Falls.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Oh, that you uh a beer.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

A beer or wine, a couple of wines.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:17

Or soda, water, whatever. Yeah, they have different options of drinks.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:20

You'd have to get a catering permit and you'd have to have a caterer serve these pieces, these alcohol beverages.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:26

Which is Oh, you have to have the caterer serve it too?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

Yeah, you that's who would have to serve it. So and this is where the complexity of the alcohol ordinance gets weird. It's you know, according to a detective at the Alcohol and Bureau Commission for the state, they said this has always been true. But that's not what people think, and it's not what people have been practicing. Right. Um if you have a Super Bowl party and you own a car dealership and you wanted to get everyone together and watch it and you said bring your own beer, everyone probably thought that was fine before. But according to this ordinance, that was going to be eliminated unless you got a caterer and you got a permit. We want people to be safe, and I'm not advocating that we're not trying to be safe, but what I'm saying is we already have a lot of alcohol ordinances and laws. And state law doesn't allow cities to actually make law around alcohol. It's the state that's primal. And so the state makes the law. We can we can administer it and we can try to interpret the state law, but we shouldn't be adding to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

I was gonna say, yeah, because that's just to me, that just sounds like it's adding extra regulation. Yes, which we already have.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

It's problematic for a city like Idle Falls, and this is a bigger reason why I spoke up, is if we regulate higher in the city, but Ammon doesn't, and the county doesn't, then if you're gonna build a new bar or restaurant or business. Yeah, don't do it in Idle Falls, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

So Well that's yeah, there's conversations happening in our community about we're gonna have to take like our weddings, our continuous yeah, like to we're gonna have to do that to other cities. We're gonna have to go take that business to other cities. And that's a lot of money for one event.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:22

Well, and it's also convenience. You want people to live in Iowa Falls to be able to go to places in Iowa Falls.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

So Yeah, you don't want to be driving to Blackfoot or Ammon or Shelley.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:31

And so all of that to say I just think there's more work to be done here. To be honest, what I would have preferred is that we'd not mess with this at all because it's a little bit like water law in Idaho or water issues. No one's gonna be happy once you start digging in. It's a little like putting your hand in a hornet's nest. Like I I don't know where you win and for the kind of outcomes that we were looking for to kind of fix these things. I'm not sure there was enough reason to do it. So that's but the hard part for me was that my councilmates didn't agree with me on those points. And I had been talking about it for months that I think we needed to do this because I am out in the community and when you said that we needed to do this, what do you mean? We needed to stop on the commercialization piece that that was unusual. It's not something else the rest of the state has identified and actually written out. You know, they've kept it vague on purpose so that people could just go do their bring their own beer and no one's asking many questions until it realizes to a level where it's a real problem or something, right? Um we should just leave things where they were so that we could not have this new portion of the law that we're not sure is even legal and will be challenged in court, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

And and that's one of the things that I I feel that not just myself, but many of the residents, business owners, are confused. They they don't understand it, and and you just said it. W you you know, a city council, you don't understand it yourselves because it is it is very complex.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:08

And so And so what I had to do is I told the council that, hey, I don't feel like we've heard enough from these bars and restaurants and event centers and the private landlords, because what this really can do is make landlords a criminalization, right? So the the penalties, if you if someone if you uh knowingly allow someone to dispense alcohol in your property as a landlord, then you're charged with a misdemeanor. Not the person who's poured it, but the landlord.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:39

And that is never happened in the state alcohol laws that we've seen that I've can tell that um But but it's it should be the Again you're not no one's no one's selling. Right. It should be the person who's if they did something wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:53

It should be them, right? Because they're the ones that made the choice to bring it. The the the person that's running the business isn't even there. They usually have uh, you know, the the staff and different things and security and all of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

And I just worried that would create this kind of police date from the landlord. Like they'd be watching some like social media to see if people did a toast or they, you know. Oh my god. It doesn't put landlords in a good position. That makes them have to become the police of this alcohol for their place of business.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:24

Anyway, all it just seems so intense. And like But isn't it already hard? Sorry to interrupt you. Isn't it already hard enough for our police department to be able to cover just the things that they have?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

Yeah, yeah, they're overwhelmed most of the time. So yeah, I this whatever we pass, it's unlikely to be enforced consistently or with enough time and effort because we just don't have enough resources to get people there.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:55

And that can create problems as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:57

Because you need equity, you need fairness about how you enforce it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:01

And so all of that to be said, uh they got to a point where they were like, hey, we're gonna vote on this, and we're gonna vote on it Thursday. And I said, I don't think it's ready. And they said, Well, there's four of us that think it is, and you don't really matter, you're one or two, and uh so we're gonna move ahead. And I said, Well, then I need to know when we're gonna vote so that I can generate interest so that people will come out and talk to you the way I hear from them.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

Right, because you do hear it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:29

Yeah. And so I made a post on social media that went really viral and uh got shared like 200 times and and really the the it kind of all blew up in in the way that I knew I didn't think it would go viral like that, because I my post was pretty generic. Like I basically said, go look at this with your attorney. And if you have a business or event center, like you should really pay attention and see what you think of this. And your last chance to talk about it is July.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:58

Yeah, come give your input because we're voting on it today.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:02

And but I did make a mistake and say that it was a felony. When it wasn't, it was gonna be a misdemeanor. I was just hurried and didn't reread. And when I saw it the next or when I read it again finally, I'm like, oh horrified that I'd said felony when that wasn't true. The city doesn't we don't ever we don't actually have any felony things that we can charge. We that can be from the county.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

Okay, okay, that's good to know. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:32

I don't know how it happened. I should have just used the word criminalization because that's what it was really about. Anyway, so I kind of had to s go out on my own to say that, and my council members aren't necessarily happy about that, I don't think. But I do think they heard a lot from the there was an hour of testimony that night. It did get tabled. We'll see where it goes from here. But I hope that we go back to just saying, hey, we're gonna tie this to the state law.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:58

And that when I started researching Meridian and many of the other cities in the state, they just say their whole ordinance is refer to the state law, word the implementers, essentially, is what it says.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:09

It be it becomes a lot. It becomes a lot. And it's like it I feel that the city has a lot that it already is responsible for and deals with. It just seems like a lot of extra work. Um and like you said, uh with so much vagueness, like it, you know, it's it's gonna it might come back and not in the best way possible. But I want to go to the point of where you did something that speaks, in my opinion, very highly of what leadership is.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:49

And what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

You you don't that making that post. Oh you went out on my own. Out on your own. You knew that you were probably going to get, you know. Pushback for sure. And it was gonna be uncomfortable, and people were probably not gonna be happy to see you when you walked into that room or when they saw the post. Um even knowing that, or did you know that was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:19

Oh, I've had these moments in my 11 years on council. Okay. I've had to stand on my own more than once. Um I think it really that's I wish they scored politicians on when they voted against the majority sometimes. I think so too. You should have at least a 10 or 20 percent time frame that you're voting against the majority, or else we're in real trouble because of groupthink, right? Like we're just doing what everyone thinks we should do.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:47

And so I try to be the devil's advocate at times on the council. Um, but I don't want to be that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:54

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:55

She don't want to be a good person either. And so in this case, I I felt like it was important, but I will say that um we need to stand up when we fill these things. The training for me that that was true, is I refereed basketball because I I had my whole life in basketball and I coached and I refereed high school basketball. And so half the gym was gonna be mad at me when I blew the whistle.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

Yes, that is so true.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

Watching FIFA officials right now. I've been watching that no one's gonna be happy, right? And so you make a decision and then you have to be fine with it yourself. And so I don't have a hard time doing that. And I like I said before, maybe the ambiguity of my life of being redheaded and not being great at school, but just standing out at times, you know, that I had to be willing to do these things, and I've become comfortable in those places. I also I worked really hard to not just be the people pleaser.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

Tell me more about that, that you've worked hard to not be the people pleaser. We're getting into the the final um section uh of the podcast, which is healing.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:07

Yeah, I'm I spent a lot of my life in a religious environment that was all about service and defining yourself by what you gave and what you did to serve others.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:21

And that was your worth, or that was Yeah, that's where you found your value, your insight into yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:28

You're like, oh, I'm a good person because I'm absorbing and I'm not doing this for myself or whatever. And because of that, it's a perfect training ground. Any high pressure religion, they tell you that God's in your mind, you know, like you can hear your thoughts, yes. You're like you have to do the right thing all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

And we're only human.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:50

Yeah, you're not gonna do the right thing all the time. Yeah. So people pleasing though is a great path to be feel good about yourself because you're like, hey, at least I'm being good to them or I'm trying to do what they need me to do. And uh I think there's a lot to people pleasing that's positive. Like I'm not gonna say you shouldn't try to please people, but you also need to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:13

And it's kind of going against Yeah, you gotta find it, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:16

You gotta find the places in your life where you're willing to stand up and stand up for your needs and stand up for the things that you know are important.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

And so that that's actually very, very big to hear that out of your mouth because I've known you for a couple of years now, and and that was probably your identity, like you said.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:45

And I need to be fine with people not liking me in the role that I have. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

And actually, that is a that is a good thing. Yeah. Like you really don't want everyone to like you.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:58

And you don't want to be trying to make decisions based on people liking you.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:01

Oh my gosh, that's the worst.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

Right. And so, like with the alcohol ordinance, these were principles about government that I believe in.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:09

And they're things it's not even about the alcohol. It's I don't drink.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:14

Yeah. So it's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:16

But but I do have it's the principles. I I agree too, right? For me, that felt like it was government overreach. And for me, that was worrisome because I might it's the same issue on immigration.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:31

Yeah, more, more, more.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:32

And look look where we're at nationally. Like, is that what we want in Idaho Falls? I don't that is not Idaho Falls.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:41

So uh yeah, I have to do that every once in a while. Um, but I think it gives you credibility for the times when you do speak up, too. Because I'll be honest, I think my councilmates will take things I say more seriously going forward when that many people showed up to to back the Tell me, tell me Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

And the people that showed up, like what what were you expecting? Well because I mean you made that post.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:08

And I very late, like in the day. Yeah. Like, I mean, right you know, before the vote. How many people were you expecting?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:15

I don't I didn't really know, but there'd been a lot of interest online. But we had an hour's worth of three minute comments, right? So there was a lot of it was full.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:24

And people didn't I was gonna ask, like, is there um do you guys only do one hour of public comment?

SPEAKER_06 1:28:32

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:32

But because there were so many other people that didn't get up e either to say. I I'm just curious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

Yeah. Now the next thing is I do think that I've heard from my council mates already that they worry that the public wasn't informed or that they weren't correct about some of their comments. And that is entirely true about some things that was discussed because it is a complex ordinance. Right. It is And how many times did we hear them say, Hey, I tried to read through this and I made it to page twelve of thirty-two? Well, one of the focuses of trying to rewrite this ordinance was to put it all together in one ordinance. It was three before, and so that it was readable and understandable by people Oh my. So you obviously didn't hit that mark.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:17

No, not at all. Not at all. Because even within I feel you're there, I'm not. Even within the council, do you feel that you guys understand it?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:29

Well, I've worked really hard to, you know, I've read it probably five times now. But it's a little bit like COVID. One of the things that we set decided as a city council is that we weren't gonna be making a lot of those decisions, although it wasn't always our choice that we weren't gonna make those decisions. The governor really had the health departments making a lot of those decisions.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:50

Mostly because we're not doctors. But we didn't we didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:54

You're not the ones that specialists.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:56

And I think with this l liquor ordinance, we need to remember we're not the alcohol attorneys, and we needed more um consulting. And I think that that is from specialists, yes. So I have one other council member who told me that they were willing to spend some money on the consultants to come in.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

Um So right now it's what what can the public expect, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:20

Go to go to the website, Idle Falls uh City website, email your council members, um, tell them what your concerns are.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:30

Um if you're a business owner, I would hire an attorney because this is really important. Okay. If you're a bar owner or a restaurant owner, I would have them review it and have them do it from your vantage point as a business.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

As your attorney should, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:44

And tell you where things are um problematic versus where they're um not. So there's yeah. And it's one of the reasons why I don't think cities should be touching these things as much as uh they do, because we do it is gonna cost businesses and people the resources to go kind of find this out themselves too.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:05

It is, it is. Yeah, it's been really difficult, but I appreciate you um sharing that. And with the city council, when when will this be discussed again? What can we expect in terms of what's the next step on this ordinance?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:22

Right now it's tabled.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:24

So there's not a date certain.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

So we'll see. Um and there's a lot of public comment for them to sort through.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:30

Oh, yeah. I mean, have you seen the Facebook groups and the personal posts from different people? Like it's been, it is the hot, hot topic.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:40

And I would say that 70 or 80 percent of that is things just saying I don't have the government overreach. And so that's easy to say, but how does that actually come out in an ordinance? And so that will be a judgment call for a lot of people, right? But um but the specifics, we had some very specific things about like building codes and building safety, and so we had great comments and brought forward things that council members came to me and said, Oh, I didn't know that there was an A3 designation for mercantile, you know, buildings. So there were some good things that we slowed down, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:16

I I feel it's really good. Yeah, um, because it impacts so many people, and we don't know what we don't know. And until we hear, and it's gonna take community and it's gonna take um trust, and it's gonna take making the time to be able to do that. Well, I I just wanted to say thank you because you actually inspired me. I I know I I had not seen that part. Um, and like yes, in we have conversations in different um spaces in different meetings, different, you know, topics that you talk, but to do this, I knew this was not the way you norm no, it's absolutely not. And I was like, Whoa, who is this? I still don't know this guy. Like he still has so many, so many surprises. And one of the things that we're gonna um close with, John, is if you could share with our audience probably one of the moments in your lives which was um probably really difficult painful um you know uh emotionally that you probably thought you weren't gonna get through and and how did you get through it?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:48

Um well in 2019 I found out I had an enlarged heart and they told me that I needed to have open heart surgery.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:56

Immediately.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:57

Well yeah. I my aorta was gonna was at risk of exploding and and so they measured it. It was supposed to be three centimeters, it was almost seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:08

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:10

And so they knew that I, you know, if I was in a car accident, I would I would have that burst. If I I they told me I couldn't lift more than fifteen pounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:19

And so um I went and got the scans done and was preparing to get that surgery, and then they scanned me and found thyroid count cancer in the scan of my heart. And so my doctor was so devastated because he just told me I needed to have open heart surgery. It took him a few weeks for him to say, Oh, John, you also have cancer, and we're gonna have to like take your thyroid out and um, you know, do what we need to to get the cancer out of your body.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

And I'll be honest, um it was about 10% lethal meaning there's about 10% of people that don't wake up from the heart surgery that are That's a very high percentage because it's usually the point one percent.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:03

Yeah, it was it was enough that they made me do my will and like you know, yeah, they do, they do.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:11

They do make you have those things ready before you go in when when there is such a big percent.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:16

So and then facing this cancer diagnosis was you know, it's always scary.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:22

And just hearing that word is super scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:26

So it was an emotional time, and I I found out in January I had the surgery in June. So there was it was a six month five months. I had my thyroid surgery in May.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:39

So you had that one before the heart surgery.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:42

Which was another hard thing because the two doctors didn't make the decision. I was like, hey, you're a doctor, tell me which surgery I should do.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:51

I should go first, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:53

I'm a heart doctor. I don't know anything about the cancer diagnosis. I'm not gonna make that decision because I don't know how aggressive it is. And I talked to the cancer doctor and they're like, Well, I don't know anything about your heart. Oh my god. I don't know if your heart can live through the surgery of having the thyroid out.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:07

And couldn't they communicate together?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:09

They said that that was not what was gonna happen. It was my choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:12

Oh, that's awful. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:15

I didn't like that. But luckily, back to community. One of the kids that was my best friend's little brother is an anesthesiologist at Urmac, and I was telling him my dilemma, and he's like, John, come to Urmac, do the thyroid surgery, because I'll be your anesthesiologist. You're under you're under anesthesia. You I watch your blood pressure at every second. We'll have your heart on a monitor, you'll be in a trauma center where we could do the surgery if your heart does fail. Oh, wow. Um my surgery didn't end up happening at Urmac for my heart, but it was in Utah. But um, but he gave me that kind of confidence to make that way forward. So that was good. And someone I knew, if it was just Right, just a random then I wouldn't have known whether to trust him or those things. So uh but the difficult part was facing my death, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:05

Um I was gonna say the fact that you had to write a will, like what did what how were you facing that?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:15

Well, I think the hardest thing I had to do was walk into that hospital, drive to Utah, and actually make the decision to walk in because there's a lot of guy in me that's like, oh, I'm fine, I'll tough it out. Uh that they're wrong, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:32

I literally got chills, chills, chills, because I I know I'm not the one that walked in, but I walked in with my son. Yeah, you've lived it the same thing, and it was a question.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:45

Might am I making the right decision?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:47

Yeah. And when it's it's people you love and if it's yourself, those are questions that will forever affect you, right? Oh but facing that was emotionally uh liberating because at some point I had to look back on my life and be okay with it. Yeah. And then look forward and see if I'm okay with what my future holds. But it changed a lot of things for me, right? Like I'm a more social, more friendly person. I I would have never been out and been friendly uh prior to my heart surgery. Really? In terms of w being out with someone of the opposite sex that was a friend, or like I was just in this higher religious kind of atmosphere that you hey guys didn't weren't friends with other women socially for like civic things, like like that needed to be true for me. And uh I leaned into friendships that have been really meaningful, right? And so that wouldn't happen if I had probably had had the surgery. I wouldn't have those people in my life. I also think it was um hard to face that I was mortal going forward after that. So those seven years since then, uh 2026, 2019. So I think um I lost my mom really young with a phone call I found out. Oh, I was 24. I wasn't young, young, but I was like, that's still young, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:19

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:20

And I knew that your life can change in a second. You absolutely and so I've really been careful. Like, if if there was a choice of me or my wife taking my daughter to school in the morning and I was could just stay home and sleep, I was motivated to take her because I was going to want that opportunity to know that I gave that time and didn't regret that I didn't spend it with them. Right. Because I had seen that she could be taken at any second. Like just the the world can do that. Yes. And so knowing that I could have been done in 2019, and we all know people in our lives that are our age that are past.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:59

Yes. And yes, we do. It's been hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:02

Yeah. I will say the other thing that really one tool that I took to that is that I wanted to choose my own hard because it was hard to get your chest cut open with a bandsaw and be in the hospital for ten ten days. That wasn't easy. Oh my and I don't know that my heart expansion had anything to do with my health and my determinations of how I treated myself and how I ate and how I exercised. But after that, I knew that I could increase my ability to not have to do it again if I exercise and I eat better and I do the right things. And so it's really helped me choose my own hard. Like I'll wake up every morning and do the walks and do the things I need to do so that I can actually know that that's my choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:46

Yes. And you do the and you do the walks, the um, you call them the rucks. Tell us a little bit about that and and what it does for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:57

So I'm convinced that humans need resistance to be to have energy. And I came to this conclusion a lot of my work in Council in Power, where we create hydrogen gases by pushing things through pressure through a membrane, and that brings off the hydrogen gas, which we can then burn as stored energy that can give us energy. And I also read a book around mitochondria that I found out that that's how our energy happens for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:24

ATP. The only way we get ATP is when things, proteins are pushed through a molecule at the mitochondria level, and the offset is ATP, which is stored energy, which we can call on at other times. But you know how you get ATP? You rest, you sleep well, you exercise, and you eat right. There is no shortcut, there is no pill you can take to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:46

That is very true.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:47

And so when I kind of had had those things swirling in my mind, it became pretty clear to me that power comes from resistance and doing hard things, especially stored power. And so that's how the Daily Rux came in my life. I read a book called Um The Comfort Crisis.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:06

And in that book, the author kind of falls in love with carrying things because he had to carry a reindeer that he'd shot in Alaska for food. Because they were out spending a month or two in the in Alaska. And he's just said his whole body was on fire and he felt so alive when he carried that weight back to camp. And so then he started looking at other groups that used weight training that they carried.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:29

And the US Army, the the Roman military, they have all trained with weight training of carrying packs. So I carry I carry 50 pounds on my back every morning for an hour or so. I do that without my phone so that I can have creativity.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:47

And you do it at uh uh what time do you still have do it at do you still do it like at a certain certain minutes before sunrise?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:54

Yeah, there's a s there's a spiritual component that if you wake up an hour and thirty-six minutes before the sunrise and get out and do that, then you that's when the world is at its peace and it's at its stillness. And that they say in Hindu tradition, that it's when the veil between God and the earth is the smallest, the thing. And so it's important for me to take that time. It's sometimes in the summer that can be 4 20 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:22

I was going to say, yeah, the I wake up at 5 30 and the sun has already risen. I'm like, damn, I missed it.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:29

Yeah. So I don't do that every morning when it gets to be 4 20. Um most of the year, a lot of the year it's like 5 50 or 610 that when that's true, because the sun doesn't come up till 6:30 or 8. But um anyway, so that's been a way for me to have emotional resilience, a way for me to have that. But I'll also say friendships like yours and mine, that we you get emotional resilience because you can share your burdens with each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:56

Yeah, that's actually one of the biggest reasons um why I feel that there was such a good connection was because you heard me talking um about the challenges. Yeah, the challenges, you know, that that have come with my children and their health. And I and you reached out several times, and I didn't I don't even remember seeing you at the event. I know your brother, you know, was there and he's helped sponsor. And I confused you and your brother, so when we finally met, I was like, well, that's not, that's not. I'm like, maybe it is, maybe it is. And anyways, I little did I know that you understood.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:46

Had the same challenges. I'm a caretaker.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:48

And that was uh uh like it's so hard to talk these things with someone that's not living them.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:59

Yeah, or experiencing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:01

Yes, and and like I said, it's not that I was happy that you uh your family was experiencing this, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:10

It just felt like I wasn't alone and someone authentic that we had had those same experiences.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:16

Yeah, that was really, really I'm like, whoa, and super social. Like so for me, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:22

Like I You and I we are gonna go talk to someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:28

I didn't know how much I had become unsocial.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:34

That's right, and because you're so busy caring.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:37

Yes, and I didn't know how to leave that guilt of putting things in place that it's that allowed someone else to be caretaker and me just mom. We're actually just starting that this a month, two months ago. Honestly, like seriously. And it's been nice, hard, but also nice, and it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:09

Well, it was a it was a real lesson for me in management as well, in my role as CEO and other I I manage bookstores for 27 years. And when things reflect on you, you want to take control. And when Don't we all when we love as fiercely as a mom or as a spouse and and that their health and their lives are at risk, then we're not gonna want to like d allow people to have that control outside of us. But if you don't have resilience through others and the medical facilities and the medical world, they're not gonna succeed. It's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:45

Well, I mean, it's just it's just kind of like you said, right? Like someone's life can change in a matter of minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:52

My my my love of community and my commitment to community was enhanced immensely by walking into that hospital that day because I absolutely had no control. I was gonna be under anesthesia and they were gonna they were gonna go and trust. They were gonna turn off my brain, my heart. I was in a room that was close to freezing, and for 10 hours I lived because there was a heart and lung machine that was blowing my oxage into my brain and blood through my body. And I there was nothing, there's not like a like a like a pilot who's like, Oh, I'm really skilled, I can get through this hard thing. I was in the hands of someone else. Yes, completely. Not someone else, but a team of 20 or 30.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:34

Yep, and it's a whole team.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:35

And I did all I could. I researched when they last service that hard months. I did all those things, and I chose when to have the surgery, what day of the week, you know, who what was the most successful days and when do people die? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:50

You really, really want you really took control. It turns out that you still wanted to control that.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:56

As much as I could control, I'm gonna do it. But I well, after I had the experience, I walked out, and it turns out that you're better off having surgery on Monday, not because the surgeon's more skilled on Monday, but because the nurses who take care of you afterwards are the best nurses are Monday through Friday because that's the ones who want to work Monday through Friday, the normal shifts. They're most experienced. And I literally did they lost me and they had to bring me back, and it was the nurses that did that for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:23

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:24

I like they overdosed me with high blood pressure medicine.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:28

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:29

And they had to reverse that, and it was it was it was amazing, right? But it was that team of people that kept me alive. And that when you face really, really hard things, you need each other. You you need more than you.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:47

Oh, I know. Yeah, I know, I know. And so we're hoping that you know that there is a community out there. You'd be surprised how many people can relate to something we don't feel comfortable sharing, that we're scared to share, that I don't know, whatever might be the reason that we don't share it, it's okay. Like, it's okay. We all go through things and and it brings healing and it and even just to listen, just you know, so that you don't go crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:25

Even just to get out to have that social aspect, because that was a concern for my family. Was like, we feel you're not going out. We feel you're not doing anything, we feel you're and I'm like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. But it was the mom guilt. Like I worked forever, and how did I miss all of this? And now I just want to be here and and make up for it. And it's like, well, that doesn't work either.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:53

Yeah. It's a little bit in sleep. You can't catch up, can you?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:57

No, we have to learn. To have that balance, we have to learn to let go and trust that there's a whole community that's gonna take care of our loved ones and and control. We have to let go of control.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:13

Like And there's all kinds of places to look to find the examples of where people are stepping up and helping. Right. So many.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:23

I mean, for me, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:26

We hear the opposite. We hear all the negative stories or we hear all the crime stories, but there's so many more that the weight is overwhelmingly for the people who actually do take care of each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:36

Yes, yes. I and there's so many more. There I mean, I I run into someone I I ran into a lady at the gym and she's 78, she said. And I said, Do you remember me? And I said, It was like 22 years ago that you helped me um navigate the infant and toddler program for my son that helped immensely to, you know, with all of the different therapies and services for p children that were blind. And I was like, there was no way I could have done it by myself. And seeing her was she was like, I said, I really want you to know that made a huge all the difference. I was a little young, I still I wasn't a little girl, but I was I was young. I you know, I was like early 20s, and I still didn't know a whole lot of what was going on, and I was scared, and it was really nice to have someone guide me.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:44

What you know, you run into people that are there that make a difference or have made a difference in your life. Like, have you run into someone lately that you're like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:56

Yeah. I I see my teachers, my coaches, right? Those were a lot of people. I've lost both my parents, but my parents were those people. And then I really rely on my siblings a lot. We're really fortunate to have each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:09

That is so true. You did you did say, you know, that one of the things, one of the good memories you have growing up being a redhead is how your sister Michelle just loved my hair.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:21

Yeah. She made me feel good about my hair. I didn't know I didn't know it wasn't supposed to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:26

Yes. And and you've talked wonders about Lee, about, you know, how he He was someone I really wanted to be like.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:35

And but I was the athlete, none of the rest of my siblings were. And so it's really fascinating that I really admired them for their academics and the things that they were accomplishing. Um but I I think families, if they're healthy, yes, we have all kinds of families. Yeah, but if they're healthy and you can rely on them, then they give you everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:00

I agree. It is it is so beautiful. Like, regardless, we all get busy, we all grow up, but I feel that siblings, once their kids grow like grow up, then the siblings start coming together again, right? Isn't that like I see that and then I notice that with your family. And I'm starting to notice that with my family.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:22

It's so funny because I think there's these elevations of life where you're a kid, a toddler, then you're a teen, you get more independence, and then you have your own family and you're like that. But then there's a there's a landing too where you're like in your 60s and you start suddenly your kids are gone, you're a teen again because you have this freedom and all the and all the other seniors want to be around you, and and then then you you go to assisted living and you're a toddler again, and like it's gonna be fascinating. One thing I'd love to do my toddler or my siblings and I joke about this is that we need to sell all of our real estate and make a compound and have a nurse just come live with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:59

I think that would be so much better.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:01

So that we have people who care about us and know us.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:04

That would be so much better. Kids, if you're hearing this, I like that idea. If for whatever reason I didn't tell you, you listened, you heard this, I like that option. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today. I know we've covered a lot. I want to say uh genuinely thank you for truly caring, for wanting to be involved, for being welcoming. Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:38

You're the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:38

Inviting sometimes. I mean, sometimes uh we're honest here. Sometimes I'm you know, sometimes I'm not. I you know, sometimes yeah, sometimes I make um unpopular decisions too, and and though and they're hard, they're not easy to make, but sometimes they have to be made. Well, we hope you have an excellent rest of the month, and we hope to see you next time in La Vos que Conecta. Thank you so much to our guest, John. Thank you. Don't forget to follow us, uh, find us on YouTube, Spotify, on Facebook, um, and we'll put all the links in the comments. But thank you again. Gracias a todos for star con nosotros in one episodio mas de La Bosque Conecta.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:40

Welcome to